WIPOD – Design Talks: Transcript of Episode 4

From Testimony to Achievement: Santos’ Experience with the Hague System

Sarah Lucek: Hello, design enthusiasts. Welcome to another episode of Design Talks, where we explore the exciting world of design and innovation.

I'm your host, Sarah.

Today, we are joined by Mr. Nicolas Fouquet from Santos, a French company famous for making high-end coffee grinders, juice extractors, and blenders for every kind of cocktails. All proudly made in France.

So, grab your headphones and a cup of coffee or tea and join us as we uncover the nuances of international design protection and the impact on designers and their creations. Stick around for a conversation that promises to be both enlightening and inspiring!

Welcome, Mr. Fouquet, Nicolas. We are absolutely thrilled to welcome you here today for a chat with us.

Nicolas Fouquet: Hello Sarah, yes you are right, with us you can have a coffee, you can have fruit juice, fresh vitamins, you could also have a cocktail, but let's talk about Santos.

Sarah Lucek: Let's talk about cocktail later then. Before we dive into Santos' journey, Nicolas, can you share any personal connections or insights you may have about the history of Santos, considering the shared family name with its creator, André Fouquet?

Nicolas Fouquet: Yes, of course, I can tell you the story, maybe a small part of it. It's a long story because we are a 70 years-old company. André Fouquet was my grandfather, and he was the creator of Santos in 1954. So, we have to make a time travel to that period and all the equipment in the local groceries was manual coffee grinders. And my grandfather was the inventor of the first electrical coffee grinder. That was quite a revolution because he was handling this technology of electric motors, which was really new. So, that was the very beginning of the company from my grandfather.

And in the 90s, my father took the company, the company has been growing at that period a lot. And today I run the company with my brother, Aurélien. He's the sales guy, he is in charge of marketing and sales. Myself, Nicolas, being an engineer, I'm in charge of developing the new products. I handle all the technical sides of the company, including the creation of new products.

Today we are a SME business of 50 people, and we are really proud to still be a family-owned business 70 years after the creation of the company.

Sarah Lucek: We are curious to know about the origin in the idea behind Santos. How did the concept of creating this company come about?

Nicolas Fouquet:  Yes, the first product was electric coffee grinders and that was to replace the manual appliances in the grocery stores. And the second product was a cheese grater for grating cheese, this is typically French. That was also for groceries, that was only commercial equipment.

The knowledge was these electric motors and through the years we developed a complete range of equipment for bars, hotels and restaurants and we only make for B2B market and only professional equipment and manufacture everything in France, and we sell in about 130 countries in the world.
Sarah Lucek: Let's get back to Santo's origin. Where does this name originate from?

Nicolas Fouquet:  Santos, there was no Mr. Santos. That's the mystery of the company. And Santos was the most famous coffee in France in the 1950s, the period of my grandfather, because Santos is the name from the city in Brazil where all the coffee was coming from. So that's the origin of the name. The name is linked to the first coffee grinder and the history of the company.

At that time, there were many different brands they were using at my grandfather's period. But we kept only the Santos name, which is very international that we can use everywhere, and which is also a trademark that we have a protection on it too.

Sarah Lucek: This is really, really inspiring, a truly inspiring story. And how has this familial link influenced your approach to design within the context of Santos' rich history?

Nicolas Fouquet:  Yes, the design. You know, I would say it's all a balance between tradition, history of the company and innovation. Because when my brother and myself, we started in the company, the existing range of products was a bit old-fashioned, but it was very, very popular in the world for the quality and reliability.

So, we had in one hand to maintain the tradition, and also create the future-oriented products for the market, more modern and with a design linked to the new habits and trends. So, that was really a balance between tradition and innovation.

Sarah Lucek: Thank you for sharing this. And we are even more curious now, what is the role of innovation for SME like Santos in a highly competitive environment?

Nicolas Fouquet:  Oh yes, innovation is very important, we have an R&D team who tries to create at least one new product every two years. For example, in the juice equipment, we have a full range of orange juicers, we have juice extractors, we have blenders, and we have the product for every fruit juice or every cocktail.

In this range, for example, the last product is a blender with a unique brushless motor technology, which is quite innovative. And we have also full safety features for the users and a very compact design. So, we use constant innovation to keep our position of leader on the market.

Sarah Lucek: That’s really, again, interesting when you share that kind of story, and can you tell us about your early days at Santos and how the company's history and focus on quality influenced the way you approach design?

Nicolas Fouquet: Yes, as I told you before, when we took the company with my brother, the brand was already strong, but yes, the products were reliable, but there was an old range, a bit old-fashioned. And we had to make new future-oriented products, modern products. We decided to make a remarkable and unique design.

It was a way in fact to enhance the sales of the whole range the old products and the new ones. And the idea is to be seen as a high-end European manufacturer, but also competitive. And then we can sell our products worldwide.

Sarah Lucek: And actually, your reply has a direct link to my next question is, how was the company adjusted to these changes in design trends?

Nicolas Fouquet: In fact, we had to adapt to the new markets and the new generations of users because the time is going fast. For example, in the fruit juice, people now want to come back to fresh juice with vitamins, and they even switched to fruit juice to vegetable juice. So, it's really new trends that appeared through the years.

We have, for example, seen the opening of juice bars and juice bar chains. So, we had to create fully new products for the new habits, the new needs, the new concepts. It's the same for the coffee business, which is very popular now in the world. Coffee was mainly European, now it's worldwide, even in Asia.

So, we had to make new coffee grinders, not only for the European habits, but for the worldwide need, different tastes, different type of coffee, and also the high-end of barista championship competition in the world. It's very famous in Asia too. So, we had to make new coffee grinders for these new trends.

So, the market is in constant change, So it's really a source of motivation and creativity for us.

Sarah Lucek: Indeed, you're totally right. So, let's talk about the Hague System. When did you first encounter it? And what led Santos to explore this avenue for protecting its designs on a global scale?

Nicolas Fouquet: So, we make new products, and we have to protect it by what we call ‘a design patent’. And it has always been a habit, even before my generation, to protect the new creation.

The Hague System is the worldwide system which came naturally as a solution to cover all our markets because we export a lot outside France and Europe.

So, it's a way to make our product being unique on the market, once again, on the worldwide market, and it's a warranty of fair competition on the worldwide market.

Sarah Lucek: Can you share a specific instance where the Hague System played a pivotal role in safeguarding a santo's design and maybe how the protection impacted the design or even the company?

Nicolas Fouquet: Yes, as an extreme, we could talk about counterfeits, copies, because I would say when you have success with your product, you may be copied. And in another hands, if you are copied, it's because you are successful.

This happened to us in the past, even in our small B2B market, our products were copied. So now we really use a global IP, intellectual property strategy and we use the models of the Hague System really as a preventive protection to launch our product.

I would say it's a protection about unfair competition, counterfeits. I would say it's a peaceful weapon better protect your product and then you can sell more easily. So, it will save our innovations, and also, I would say it will save the job of our employees for the long term.

Sarah Lucek: Indeed, how do you balance creativity and legal considerations in aspects in the design industry, especially with innovation in focus? And actually, how does the Hague System help in pushing Santos to create more while ensuring legal protection?

Nicolas Fouquet: Every new Santos product is protected by a design patent. We protect every new product. And it's also a budget in our R&D from the beginning. We protect every product. So, it's a way to protect our innovation, to protect our investments, and then, every new product is protected and then it can finance the next one. So, it's a long-term vision.

I would say it's because we protect, maybe it's the reason why Santos is still here 70 years after its creation.

Sarah Lucek: So, Nicolas, with Santos originating from Brazil and considering Brazil's recent accession to the Hague System, how do you foresee these developments opening up new opportunities for Santos and maybe for other Brazilian design companies on the international stage?

Nicolas Fouquet: Sarah you guess my dream is to be Brazilian. Yes, of course, the Hague System is expanding. That's a good thing. Brazil is part of my heart because this is where the coffee is coming from.

So, I'm very happy to see that the system expands and that could open also our sales to Brazil. That's a good link in our history. That's perfect!

Sarah Lucek: And still, back to history, is your first coffee grinder still being manufactured today?

Nicolas Fouquet:  The one from 1954, you mean? Yes, yes, we still make it. Yeah, you know, in Santo's catalog, all the products have a number. And we have number one, number two, number three. And the last one was launched and is number 66 and 67. So we still produce number one, which is the coffee grinder from 1954.

But we also have an enhanced version for Barista. which is more modern looking because the old one was brown and now it's more black and nice fashion.

And we still have number two, which is the cheese grater from 1954. And now we have number 66, which is a high-end blender and number 67, which is a high-end coffee grinder.

So, yes, we still make some of the products from the origins because they are very reliable, very popular. So, we still make them.

Sarah Lucek: And, as we wrap up, what advice do you have for designers, especially SMEs like Santos, who are listening to us today and who are considering utilizing the Hague System, and how do you see it shaping the future of design at Santos?

Nicolas Fouquet:  So, for Santos, we have a huge number of ideas for the future and the young generations are pushing hard to create the Santos products of the future.

So, I would tell all the creators in the world, like we do, to be enthusiastic and to believe in the future of their creation and maybe they will have great success in the world. Even if they are a small startup, even if they are in a small country.

We are a bit in this case in France, it's not a big country. We sell everywhere in the world, but we are not from a big, big country. And I would say to these people, the worldwide market can offer you the success.

So, you must be prepared to it and protect your creation and do it from the beginning, do it before selling it, protect your creation. And then it will help you focus on your sales, on your creativity of other new products, then you will develop your business in a safe way.

So, I would say, use the Hague System as we do, and it's quite simple. It's really cost efficient, even for SME business as us, it's not so high cost. And yes, it's really open to small companies. I would say to all the creators, make this small bet from the beginning and then it will create a story for the future generation maybe as my grandfather and my father did for me and my brother.

Sarah Lucek: Thanks so much, Nicolas, for joining us today. And a sincere thank you to all our listeners for tuning into Design Talks, a production of the World Intellectual Property Organization brought to you with the support of the Funds-In-Trust Japan Industrial Property Global.

I trust that today's exploration of designers and SMEs journey within the Hague system has shed light on its workings and provided valuable insights into navigating its complexities.

Stay tuned for our future episodes where we will keep bringing you interviews with designers and experts sharing their inspiring stories and valuable insights.

Remember, in the realm of creation and design, every idea has the power to shape the future and spark transformation. Keep dreaming, keep innovating, and keep bringing your unique vision to life!