WIPOD – Page Points: Transcript of Episode 15

Intellectual Property and Fashion Law

Irene Calboli
There has been for many years the perception that fashion law is something you know a bit fluffy a bit cute not that serious but in reality, it's about human rights, it’s about employment, it’s about protection, it’s about asset, it’s about giving so many communities, so many entrepreneurs, their bread and butter for living, allowing them to create assets that can be commercialized, giving employment to other people. This is very important business. It's a business that encompasses every sector of the economy, it is probably the second, if not the first biggest industry in the world.

Anca Ciurel
Welcome to the Page Points podcast from the WIPO Knowledge Center. My name is Anca, and I will be today's host. Together, we will be diving into the world of fashion law with two remarkable experts, Irene Calboli and Eleonora Rosati. Together, they've co-authored the Handbook of Fashion Law, a comprehensive guide published by Oxford University Press that explores the intersection between intellectual property and the fashion industry.

Let's tune in now to hear Irene and Eleonora discuss their handbook.

Welcome to the podcast, Irene and Eleonora!

Irene Calboli
Hello, Anca, and thank you to you and the WIPO Knowledge Center for having us here today.

Eleonora Rosati
Indeed, thank you so much. It's a pleasure and an honor. Looking forward to the discussion.

Anca Ciurel
It is a great pleasure to have you both on our podcast. The introduction of your handbook is entitled “The Rise and Consolidation of Fashion Law as a Field of Practice, Study and Research”. Can you please tell us more about the scope of fashion law as a field of practice and research? And most importantly, how does the handbook define fashion law and what does fashion law mean to you in a broader sense?

Irene Calboli
Well, thank you for the question. As we mentioned in the introduction that you just highlighted, fashion is not a monolithic term. It encompasses several meanings. It can relate to aesthetics, social and cultural norms, trends, and of course, perhaps even more so, commercial interests. Both Eleanor and I are, I am very proud to say, we are Italians and fashion is somewhat embedded in Italian DNA, but it's certain that Italians are both culturally and commercially attached to fashion. It's also certain that fashion has become a very important field of practice and study in many countries today. We found it was difficult to find a comprehensive resource in English, we decided to edit this book, which combines multiple perspectives from many authors, from many backgrounds. I would like to hear what Eleonora thinks about it.

Eleonora Rosati
Indeed, fashion law has become somewhat of a trending topic, but does not exist as an area of law in itself. So, as Irene was hinting at, it is a combination of different areas of law, which have in common the fact that they affect the fashion sector and, of course, need also to be applied in a way that is mindful of the peculiarities of the fashion sector.

I think that the main strength of our handbook is to bring together all these different legal perspectives ranging from intellectual property to contract law, regulatory matters, data protection, e-commerce aspects, as well as frontier technologies, and have chapters that are authored by practitioners and scholars from different jurisdictions. It is a way to try and find a unified lens through which all these multifaceted dimensions of fashion and the legal implications thereof can be studied and, indeed, understood.

Anca Ciurel
Excellent! Well, if you agree, Eleonora and Irene, I'd like to frame our conversation into two parts. In the first part, I would like to discuss what elements were covered in your book, drawing the reader's attention to the specific legal challenges the fashion sector is facing and its related solutions. In the second part, I would like to discuss the future of the fashion industry and the legal challenges facing technological developments applied to the fashion sector.

How about we begin by demystifying your outline? Tell us about the four thematic areas covered in your book and who is the target audience.

Eleonora Rosati
Thank you so much, Anca. Let me start by noting that the foreword to our handbook was authored by Mr. Maciej Szpunar, who is the First Advocate General of the Court of Justice of the European Union. Not only is it a great honor to have someone like him endorsing our book, but I think he's also the testimony to the recognized importance of this emerging field of study, research, and practice. We hope that there will be something for everyone to read, enjoy and learn in the various chapters of this handbook.

Anca Ciurel
Thank you very much. During the winter holidays, I had the chance to travel around the world with my own copy of the Handbook of Fashion Law. I was impressed by the wide range of topics covered in the 41 chapters of the Handbook from IP law, like you've mentioned, contracts and the interplay between emerging technologies and the fashion sector. I noticed that 55 professionals from diverse backgrounds, such as academia, the private sector, in-house counsel, and international organizations contributed to your handbook, which is, I think, absolutely remarkable.
Can you please tell us more about the process of developing your handbook? How were the topics selected, and what gap in the existing literature on fashion law does the handbook aim to fill?

Irene Calboli
Well, as you mentioned, 55 professionals is a remarkable success, and we're very proud of it. We're also very grateful to our colleagues for giving their time and expertise to be part of this great project. Putting together a handbook of this size and depth really requires the cooperation of many minds.

I want to give a lot of credit for the creation of this book to my co-editor. I really want to say Eleonora has been the heart and soul of this project in many ways. The book really is groundbreaking in bringing the technology side, but it also really updates and combines together a lot of the IP and contract and, in general, perhaps previous literature on fashion. Another area that we're really pioneering is green and sustainable fashion and how that intersects with all the other contracts, IP, and technology as it affects fashion today.

Eleonora Rosati
Indeed, thank you so much, Irene. And of course, this project would have not been possible without you because when I looked from the outside, you have a finished book. But indeed, the work that goes into putting together the project and bringing in the people and the various contributions is quite substantial. We hope that the readers will enjoy it.

What I think makes the handbook stand apart from what was already available in the market is the fact that this is a book for those with an interest in fashion and the law, but is aimed at people already with quite developed legal expertise. The books that were available, the articles that were available before the handbook, were mostly aimed at designers, people without a legal background. Of course, the approach was also different.

We hope that our handbook makes a difference and is a very helpful companion to those working in law, whether it is an in-house role, private practice, academia, or students at either undergraduate, postgraduate, or research levels. Anyone who is in law and wants to transition to a fashion expertise. Anyone who is already advising fashion clients, and that I think is a strength that derives from the fact that many of the authors that we have involved work in fashion, whether in-house or in private practice. We also have academics who have been specializing in various aspects of the law related to fashion for several years.

I hope that, in the end, the book will be appreciated by the target readership that we would like to benefit from our work.

Anca Ciurel
Do you have any recommendations on staying informed about the legal and technological changes that affect the fashion industry? Also, if you could give one piece of advice to aspiring designers, what would it be? Aspiring fashion lawyers as well.

Eleonora Rosati
Okay, so thank you for this question. First of all, to stay up to date with relevant developments, I think one needs to be on the internet, so read the relevant blogs and newspapers. There are many dedicated resources to fashion law, but at the same time, do not have tunnel vision; do not read-only things that mention fashion and do not care about anything else.

This leads me to my advice to those who want to work in fashion law. Several people approached me, asking how I could become a fashion lawyer. The thing is that you cannot be a fashion lawyer if you don't have a general understanding of the law where you want to practice this fashion law. You cannot be a contract lawyer in fashion if you don't know general contract law. You cannot be an employment lawyer in fashion if you don't know employment law, and you cannot be a fashion lawyer in IP, if you don't have a basic understanding of trademark law, copyright law, etc.

My advice to students is that if you want to be a fashion lawyer, be as broad as possible in your reading and research. That is the only way to become a real fashion lawyer; you need to combine real practical expertise with knowledge of the fashion sector. You must avoid skimming through documentation that mentions the word fashion because that is not the way to go. It may sound harsh, but I think it's very important.

Irene Calboli
Yes, I could not agree more. Fashion, as we mentioned, is really a puzzle of many other disciplines. Fashion law, unless we have a boutique law firm that has fashion clients, and you can serve them in all the various legal aspects relating to their business and their industry. My advice to fashion lawyers is to get really deep practice in contract, IT, and IP, and then you can make a very good transition. Otherwise, you don't have the background expertise that can make you a more effective lawyer in the fashion industry. This is the best way to later go to work in-house. However, even in-house, you need to know the various laws to be able to work with your correspondents and law firms that might help you manage all your rights.

Anca Ciurel
Thank you very much. This is great advice about the reality of the practice of law and how we can link it in the future with fashion law. Is there anything else you want to share with our audience about your handbook and what you hope readers take away from it? Also, what would you like our listeners to remember from this conversation?

Irene Calboli
Well, we hope that our handbook can be useful in the industry, many lawyers, and many students. We really want it to be used. As both of us teach fashion law, we will adopt it, and we hope that many of our colleagues will also find it helpful in their teaching. We really hope to have created a resource that can help our colleagues and students become better experts and more passionate and inquisitive about the topics in general.

Perhaps it is a bit cliché, but I would like to make a reference to one of the best fashion movies ever: The Devil's Wear Prada in which the very famous monologue by Meryl Streep mentions why the color turquoise was absolutely crucial and important in an example of how the fashion industry is important for millions and millions. We can never underestimate fashion law.

Both Eleonora and I are very serious professors in very serious institutions, and there has been for many years the perception that fashion law is something, you know, a bit fluffy, a bit, cute not that serious, but in reality, it's about human rights, it’s about employment, it’s about protection, it’s about asset, it’s about giving so many communities and entrepreneurs,  their bread and butter for living, allowing them to create assets that can be commercialized, giving employment to other people. It is a very important business. It's a business that encompasses every sector of the economy and is probably the second, if not the first, biggest industry in the world.

To have more knowledge of fashion is not just nice to have, but it's very important for many lawyers if they want to have a better understanding of our society and our legal practice and general work. We can teach all sorts of laws using case law from fashion examples. I think there is a very important depth in human quality and nature to a lot of these examples that goes a long way. We really hope that this book helps people to put in context the importance of fashion law. Of course, it's more fun to work in fashion than other areas, but it's equally, if not more serious and more important. That is also something that we hope people can take away from our handbook.

Eleonora Rosati
I will just echo what Irene has said, and I will note that our handbook is, I think, some form of achievement, but it's also a starting point. We hope that it can also serve readers to find not only answers, but also new connections and thoughts that will go to develop themselves. We hope that we are sowing some seeds towards a better understanding of fashion law and accompanying our readers towards their professional development answers that they are seeking, and the research they are doing.

Anca Ciurel
Well, as an IP lawyer myself, the handbook was definitely very useful for me. As you know, I work here at WIPO as part of the Office of the Deputy Director General for Copyright and Creative Industries on a wide range of creative industries, of which the fashion industry is one. I would like to know more if you can please tell us how different intellectual property rights are used within the fashion industry.

Irene Calboli
Certainly, of course, this is a very fast summary review, and to get a much longer answer, we encourage readers to consult the book. Intellectual property applies various rights to the fashion industry. In fact, one of the most intuitive rights is a trademark distinctive sign that identifies products from a certain commercial origin. Trademarks today refer not only to logos or the name of the product but also to the shape, the combination of color and shape, etc. This ties in with creative industries, and copyright also applies to fashion. Less commonly thought rights are very relevant in fashion law, such as trade secrets and patents. Depending on the jurisdiction, there are patents and design patents. I mentioned design, industrial design, and design patents, but there is a lot of functionality that also goes into the protection of a variety of fashion items and the machines and all the various infrastructures that are needed to produce these.

One of the chapters that, for me, was very interesting to edit and read also was the one about plant varieties. We might not think too much about the relationship between plant agriculture and fashion, but a lot of fashion items are made by plants, not just in cotton but also because today, many recyclable and eco-friendly fibers are made by reusing waste from the food industry, for example. There is much increased interest in plant varieties' relationship to fashion items.

Geographical indications, and I do a lot of work in developing countries and with a lot of textiles where geographical indication is used for non-agricultural products. This is something that is becoming more relevant in the European Union. The whole spectrum of IP applies to fashion. Then depending on the item that we are dealing with, whether it's a piece of textile, an accessory, a bag, a shoe, or a jacket, different rights can apply to that specific item, but in general, most rights apply to most items.

This is why it's also important to have both specializations, but sometimes for the IP lawyer to be able to step back and look at that item in context because sometimes some protection, like copyright, I think is very important in the fashion industry and perhaps under used compared to how it could be used by a lot of designers. To know more about IP in an interdisciplinary way is something that I think is very important. We hope the book can offer support to lawyers and those interested in knowing more about fashion protection through IP and the various IP rights it can offer.

Anca Ciurel
We can draw from our conversation that the intersection between fashion and intellectual property law is one of the core areas of fashion law. According to you, what are the most pressing IP challenges that the fashion industry is facing today?

Irene Calboli
There is always a variety of challenges that affect the industry, and often, the answer depends on where in the industry the respondent can be on the distribution side, on the production side, in the contra-merchandising side, in the accessory industry, on the mass fashion industry, in the luxury industry and so on. Our book touches upon many of these aspects. However, I think that one of the real challenges that the relationship between IP and fashion is facing today is this relationship between IP, fashion, sustainability, and the circular economy.

Eleonora Rosati
I will bring a different perspective. My background is as an IP lawyer, and as I mentioned in the previous response, one has the impression that there are so many potentially available IP rights that you can get protection for pretty much anything. In principle, it is true, however, in practice, it is challenging to obtain.

For example, for the trademark registration of an unconventional sign, unless you are able to produce evidence that in turn it proves to be costly.

Even though one cumulates all these rights, things that they have on a registered design right, copyright, I see real struggles at the level of enforcement. This is true for any player in the industry, whether it is a small designer who has been copied by a bigger brand. It is a David and Goliath situation. It is difficult to bring an action for authorized copying against a bigger brand when you are a solo designer or a small company and so on.

However, big brands also face difficulties in enforcement. Today, we live not only in a fast fashion culture but also in a dupe culture. The truth remains that all these IP rights that one has secured or thinks that they have might be difficult and lengthy to enforce as well as very expensive. I feel that the enforcement level needs serious attention for all these rights to be meaningful in practice.

Anca Ciurel
You both talked about litigation and enforcement. This brings me to my next question. Can you tell us more about the significant differences in how fashion law is applied within the European Union compared to the US and Asia?

Eleonora Rosati
I will start from the European dimension. For copyright, the jurisprudence of the Court of Justice of the European Union suggests that you cannot have requirements other than originality. However, once again, what original means, I think, can be the subject of a discussion that goes on for days, if not weeks and months. It is an inherently ambiguous term and what qualifies as original, I think is a matter of debate and uncertainty. There have been some players in the fashion industry that have been successful under these new standards of the Court of Justice, but there is also great resistance on the national level, at least in some EU member states, to accept that that is now the law and in turn that the existing national statutes may be in need of repeal or substantial edits.

As to trademarks, I would say that it is relatively straightforward to register conventional signs such as logos and words, but when it comes to less conventional signs, things are not easy at all. There have also been cases involving major players such as Dior and LVMH. They've tried to register their shape and pattern marks, and they failed. If someone like LVMH is not able to provide convincing evidence, you can imagine how things might be challenging for smaller companies, smaller designs, and so on. And then, of course, there is the dimension of the other rights that we discussed earlier: plant varieties and geographical indications.

Now, in Europe, there is also the possibility of getting protection not only for agricultural GIs but also for art, craft, and industrial GIs, and that might be something that would be used by indeed players in the fashion sector, broadly intended. Again, this is a very recent innovation, so time will tell.

Irene Calboli
Well, as you know, I divide my time between the United States and Asia, residing in Singapore and working quite extensively in the region. As a European, I like to see the comparison. When we go to the United States, the tradition might have been that in the US fashion law, it's not that important. However, in reality, I would actually demystify this statement. I think there is strong intellectual property protection in the United States, which also applies to fashion items. When we look at the trademark registry, when we look at the copyright registry, because, of course, in the United States, we have a register for copyright, even though there is no need to register, but of course, enforcing rights is better to register in terms of at least getting damages and attorney's fees. At this point in general, also as a right to sue, registration is relatively straightforward.

However, in the United States, there have been cases protecting fashion items related to enforcement. Of course, the United States might be stronger and has exceptional limitations. It seems that the fashion industry thrives at this point in the United States. The United States is known to be one of the biggest markets for luxury products, mid-level products, and fast fashion. And I believe that the current system and the current level of rights might work very well. The United States has expanded copyright protection for fashion with the Supreme Court decision in Star Athletica.

In Asia, I think the protection of fashion is more and more under the zoom lens of the courts or, certainly, the IP offices. There is a lot of movement for small designers and even Indigenous communities to use a variety of rights, whether collective trademarks, certification marks, or geographical indications of design rights. WIPO has done a lot of projects, for example, through the development sector, that really help communities. The copyright sector and creative industries as well. There is a lot of work done by technical assistants in that space. I see more and more understanding, not only in developed Asian countries such as Japan, Korea, and Singapore but also in developing countries that are very rich in tradition and fashion, for example, Indonesia, with the Batik India, Malaysia, Vietnam, and so on. There've been some interesting cases. Some, of course, are the multinationals with, for example, the protection of the Louboutin red sole, or some of the mega-famous marks such as Louis Vuitton or Hermes. Designs from the region will also receive considerable national attention, so that's very important.

Anca Ciurel
Thank you very much to both of you. I'm happy to hear your feedback about what WIPO‘s work. I would like to know more about the challenges that still exist in the cross-border enforcement of IP rights in the fashion sector.

Eleonora Rosati
Speaking of enforcement, of course, a big issue is that IP rights are territorial. You don't have a worldwide trademark and you don't have a worldwide register design. This means that enforcement needs to proceed in the territory. There have been experiences over the past few years in a way to reduce the relevance of territoriality.

There have been indeed courts ordering pan-European relief in Europe, even for copyright, which in theory is still subject to 27 different laws, but also global relief. I would say that territoriality is an issue for a global player. There are also differences in terms of enforcement options and the damages that you can recover.

Anca Ciurel
Thank you very much, Eleonora. We spoke about emerging designers, but also luxury groups. The handbook also covers startup businesses and global successes in fashion. Can you share a few practical tips for emerging designers listening to us who want to protect their intellectual property?

Irene Calboli
Well, this is something very important to me. I've been working on that, again, through some of the technical assistance in WIPO, particularly in Indonesia, Vietnam, and Myanmar, just in recent times what can small designers, and remember, intellectual property should not be and is not just for big fashion needs to be used more and more in a more effective way by independent designers, by small entrepreneurs, by SMEs. This is really part of the reason why we hope this book cannot be useful just to lawyers defending, of course, big brands but lawyers helping small designers. For small designers, the most important thing is understanding that they need to be original. They need to create something that might be inspired by something else because innovation is always incremental, but they need to really invest in their own innovation in fashion. Then, they need to be aware of how to protect their work.

Of course, small designers might be more constrained by budget than big designers, but also big designers are very careful about budget in my experience as a former lawyer. To understand what to use, when to use, unregistered register right, design right, unregistered design, myself and Eleonora teach fashion designers, we are not only teaching lawyers. We actually really emphasize the need for a basic toolkit. I know the creative industry sector has also done toolkits for designers, perhaps not specifically in fashion law, but that is something that they also could do for fashion designers. To have a checklist of things can be really, really useful in understanding that you have something valuable, you need to understand how to protect it. You cannot really do it yourself too much because you risk making mistakes. You should not ever overextend your protection. You need to be careful about your budget. But you might want to think at the beginning of your journey. To have a bit of understanding of intellectual property, it's always very useful for fashion design.

I'm all in favor of the WIPO's activity to try to reach out to communities all over the world to teach them a bit about the value of intellectual property. The Director General, of course, has made that one of the primary missions of WIPO under his mandate. And I think this is very important for everyone, but certainly for designers.

Anca Ciurel
I agree with you, Irene. Lawyers need to help independent designers. At WIPO, we believe in IP for the good of everyone.

Changing gears, I would like to move on to global challenges connected to the fashion industry, such as sustainable fashion and the circular economy. Irene, I know that you are an expert in this subject, so my question goes to you. I would be happy to know more about how the book addresses the relationship between sustainability and intellectual property in the fashion industry.

Also, how can IP law support eco-friendly practices in the fashion industry?

Irene Calboli
This is such a new field that we don't really have high-court decisions. Probably the most interesting jurisdiction in this respect at this point is the United States, even though just recently we had some decisions in Asia, for example, in Korea. Not all is tension and contention in the relationship between intellectual property and sustainability. In fact, certainly, we have a chapter relating to that in the handbook as well, intellectual property can help, of course, know, technology can help green development, trademark and certify products that are eco-friendly. Copyright can protect the originality of instructions and materials that relate to fashion and green technology.

There is also the risk of greenwashing, and that's something that the European Union is taking very seriously now with not one, but two pieces of legislation related to green claims, the so-called green package. So, I think this is really an area where the direction of looking for more eco-friendly practices is becoming a standard for the industry across the board. The Generation Alpha and the new generation, the new shopper care, are driving a lot of these decisions. I just look forward to seeing what's going to come next in this area.

Anca Ciurel
I look forward to it as well. Thank you very much, Irene. As we talked about some of the topics covered in the first sections of the handbook, I would love to touch on my favorite part of the handbook, the fourth section, which I believe sets the tone for the current challenges that the fashion industry is facing regarding technology. In your view, what are the legal implications of emerging technologies such as 3D printing, the metaverse, AI, and NFTs on the fashion sector.

Eleonora Rosati
Let me start with artificial intelligence since, indeed, there is no place where this is not the talk of the day. The fashion sector is not immune to that and AI will be used and is already being used in several different respects, both to anticipate the consumers spending decisions. And that is a case of predictive AI. Also, to generate designs and to enforce relevant rights. The relationship between fashion and AI is going to be unavoidable. From a legal standpoint, of course, many questions arise, starting from the possibility of using AI to create. How far can you push the use of AI without losing, indeed, your current control and, therefore, ownership of the resulting design?

There are questions of liability. What if you use a tool premised on AI that has been trained on the materials that prove it to be infringing on someone else's rights? Is this going to cause any risk for the fashion brand using these tools, whether it is to design, whether it is to anticipate the consumer spending decisions and so on? I guess that from this perspective, it is clear that fashion, like any other sector, will need carefully to embrace AI. I think that this is a process that is somewhat unavoidable, but of course, the proper way to regulate AI and the relationship between different rights that are at stake in the AI debate will also be necessary to address insofar as the fashion sector is concerned.

Irene Calboli
Related to 3D printing in NFTs, sometimes I wonder whether these are, in part at least, from a legal standpoint, two bubbles or two areas where, for example, in 3D printing, I remember maybe 10 years ago, there was a lot of discussion and fears when the technology started to become more available, whether that would become the avenue for people to 3D print their Hermes bag, fake luxury bags, or luxury items at home. However, that has not happened. On the other hand, certainly, 3D printing has revolutionized the industry in the manufacturing sector.

With regards to NFTs, there are very interesting question. We have seen some litigation in the trademark space, of course, with the very famous meta-Berkin case in the United States. This is probably the biggest case in the fashion industry. And now we know it's under appeal, so we don't know how it's going to conclude. So far, the court seems to have sided with the fashion owner rather than artist, but it's certain that NFTs remain a very interesting tool. Blockchain is certainly very important, and in fashion, it has been increasingly used to certify the authenticity of products and designs as a potential private substitute. At least in some instances, regarding registration, I think our book does a really good job of addressing all of these issues in a very updated fashion.

Anca Ciurel
I really liked how the fourth section of the handbook focuses on all these emerging technologies and the legal considerations. Talking about blockchain, Eleonora, I had the pleasure of working with you on the publication of an article on blockchain technology used to prevent counterfeiting within the fashion industry as part of the recently published edition on IP and fashion of the Journal of Intellectual Property Law and Practice of Oxford Academic, which you are the Editor of. This brings me to my next question.

What do you think are the challenges of counterfeiting in the digital age, and what technological tools can help fight against counterfeiting?

Eleonora Rosati
Thank you for this question, Anca, and thank you again for your contribution to the journal. As you point out in your own article, there are various technological tools that might help protect rights and, therefore, enhance the efficacy of enforcement options. As these tools improve and emerge, so are counterfeiting methods. So indeed, it is always a game of mouse and cat if you wish. Yes, there are new tools that emerge to protect rights, but also counterfeiters find new ways to infringe. That is a bit the nature of this area of the law, there are tools like what Irene mentioned, blockchain, and AI that can be used effectively to protect rights.

Anca Ciurel
Thank you very much. And speaking of all these emerging technologies, where do you see fashion law heading in the next decade, especially with the advancement in digital and global commerce? Are there any areas of research that your handbook identifies as unexplored or needing further research in fashion law?

Irene Calboli
Well, I think every area might need a second edition soon. The moment you finish a book, you realize, maybe we should have added this chapter. Maybe we should have added this other chapter. Eleonora and I went back and forth on whether we should add a chapter of that and maybe the other. And then eventually we got to 41 chapters and the publisher said there are too many pages. Let's wait for the second edition.

Certainly, fashion is as old as humans and will continue to be one of the most important areas for humans and maybe even robots. Certainly, design and fashion, it's something that might also apply to the way, you know, driverless cars might be, or, the robot that brings us the coffee and so on can be. There is a futuristic aspect of fashion, now jokes aside. Certainly, technology has deeply revolutionized fashion, but at the same time, fashion is also finding back itself in the tradition. It's fashionable to have Dior using, of course, through collaboration, Batik the style from some of the best Indonesian makers of original Batik and all this intersection between materials, national origin, and collaborations, it's something that we are seeing more and more. We see fashion entering hotels, food chains, gadgets, gifts, and chocolate in some way, and Armani collaborating with Venchi. This is a great example, and these are really interesting developments.

We can see development branch off into merchandising, development in the contract, development in the way rights are bundled to protect, and new development, the refashioning of old fashion to make it more appealing, so vintage with a twist.

I think this era will continue to grow, just because it's part of human creativity and will continue as long as humans continue to create.

Eleonora Rosati
I agree. I also think that insofar as fashion law specifically is concerned, over the next few years, this area of study, research, and practice will be consolidated further. So, I anticipate that there might be a progression, not this similar to the one that we've had in other areas that are somewhat similar. I'm thinking, for example, of entertainment law. Today, this is a very well-developed area of the law. There are also some specific regulations, case law, and I expect the same to happen for fashion and on a more global scale than what is the case at the moment. It is an area that I think will be of greater and greater importance as we go forward because as Irene pointed out, it is an all-encompassing type of field. It is not just about the garments that we have, it is about culture, is about our identity, it is about our heritage, as well as more serious aspects such as conditions of laborers, the type of communication that is okay to have and not okay, and so on.

Anca Ciurel
Thank you very much. What I can say is that I look forward to a second edition of the handbook. I would be happy to read the second edition and perhaps even contribute to it. Thank you, Eleonora and Irene, for joining me today and for this inspiring conversation. It was an honor to have you on our podcast.

Irene Calboli
It was our honor, and thank you, Anca and the WIPO Knowledge Center, for the kind invitation and for your interest in our book and in this very important area of law.

Eleonora Rosati
Indeed, thank you so much for having us. It's been an honor on our side, thanks a lot.

Anca Ciurel
Thank you and we hope to have you again soon, maybe for the second edition.

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Irene and Eleonora. Their handbook will be available for purchase on the Oxford University Press website on the 27th of February of this year. To find out more about Eleonora and Irene's next projects, make sure to follow them on LinkedIn.

More information about this handbook and other IP works in our collection can be found via the WIPO Knowledge Center.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Page Points. Until next time!